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Post by ZapRowsdower on Dec 8, 2006 5:16:21 GMT -5
Mel Gibson's conduct as of late has been questionable to say the least. What with his drink-enduced Anti-Semitic rant to his pledge to support Jewish actor Michael Richards, who had just finished an angry racial tirade (although Mel Gibson should be given credit for trying). We live in a world where everybody gets so angry. The Passion of the Christ opened to hostility because it was mistakenly taken for Anti-Semitism. This was about as absurd as German people getting riled up over Schindler's List, but I digress. Many people are still angry with Mel Gibson over his supporting an alleged racist, over his drunken Anti-Semitic remarks, some are still angry over his depiction of the Jews in the Passion. We all need to get over it. We need to forgive and forget, because our anger is affecting our opinions on his work.
Imagine a world where the Pianist was never given a chance, because Roman Polanski is a fugitive from the United States, under statutory rape charges. Imagine a world where nobody watches Falling Down, because Joel Schumacher destroyed the Batman franchise. Is it really in our best interest to hold a grudge? Especially in Mel Gibson's case, which was something so incredibly trivial? Doesn't Apocalypto deserve a fair shot? Doesn't it deserve reviews that are better than "mixed"?
Well, yes.
Apocalypto is unlike anything we had seen before. It's not just the fact that Mel Gibson filmed it in a dead tongue (which had been done before, BY Mel Gibson), but the fact that it explored a civilization that Hollywood hasn't taken the time to explore. It went into the life of a Mayan, and it threw him into what was basically the beginning of the end of their civilization.
Jaguar Paw, a Mayan father played brilliantly by Rudy Youngblood, is taken away from his family to be sacrificed. He escapes a brutal sacrifice and begins his journey home - all the while being chased by his captors. We're talking one big, long chase scene. And it's awesome, to say the least. Don't want to give too much away, but there's plenty of bloodshed and a high body count.
To perform in Maya must have been a difficult task for performers who were not Mayan. But they pulled it off, and they did it very well.
Don't mean to use a stereotype, but the visuals are breathtaking. This is the best cinematography I have seen all year. The scenery was amazing, and the costumes and make-up were great. Mel Gibson has been compared to Cecil B. DeMille (in a negative context for some odd reason). DeMille has NEVER done anything like this before. I can see a few things, here and there, including a large cast and epic scenery, but this is a much different endeavor than, say, the Ten Commandments. In fact, this wasn't a religious film at all (and I've seen it referred to as such). This is more in the vein of Braveheart than the Passion.
I'm hoping to see Apocalypto get its due at the Oscars this year. I can at the very least see one for Cinematography. I'd put it up for Best Picture... maybe not the win, but definitely a nomination. While I felt this was Mel Gibson's weakest film, I DID hold his other films in very high regard. The story wasn't all that deep, but Mel Gibson had a Hell of a way of telling it. I enthusiastically recommend this film. This is a definite must-see.
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Post by Phoenix on Dec 8, 2006 12:56:22 GMT -5
Here are my initial thoughts (from the "Just Watched" thread):
I saw a free screening of Mel Gibson's Apacalypto last night. It was my least favorite Gibson movie. It's basically like all his other films except this time the main characters are Mayans. The gore was over-the-top, some of the lines were ridiculous and overall it felt formulaic. The characters are engaging though, like any Gibson film. Still, a bit of a bummer for me.
5/10Sorry Zap, the film just didn't do it for me. The more I think about it since I've seen it, the more I dislike it. The gore is so ridiculous and unreal that it really ruined the movie for me. Plus, the running through the jungle scenes get old fast. I liked the characters but after an hour of watching them brutally die and get tortured I realized this is not the film for me. Not a date movie, that's for sure. 
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Post by Pulpmariachi on Dec 8, 2006 13:26:28 GMT -5
I think this is the film for Mel Gibson film-fans (who may not be fans after seeing it, I don't know, I haven't seen it). They'll probably be the ones who flock to see it.
I mean, I have no intention of actually seeing it.
Racism isn't trivial by the way. Making the bad Batman films and hating someone for it, that's trivial but an acceptable reason to hate someone.
I see it as a film for those who are fans of Gibson at most.
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Post by ZapRowsdower on Dec 8, 2006 16:09:55 GMT -5
No, racism is not trivial. Bigotry is. I don't think Mel Gibson is a racist, but rather, a bigot. Just like everyone else.
He got drunk and spouted off some really bad things. But who DOESN'T say stuff like that when they're drunk?
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Post by Heineken Skywalker on Dec 9, 2006 12:55:24 GMT -5
Imagine a world where the Pianist was never given a chance, because Roman Polanski is a fugitive from the United States, under statutory rape charges. Imagine a world where nobody watches Falling Down, because Joel Schumacher destroyed the Batman franchise. Is it really in our best interest to hold a grudge? Sorry Smitty, but that is a ridiculous comparison. Statutory rape and making a couple of bad films are not even close to being almost the same thing and so shouldn't even be compared. Polanski is a good filmmaker, but he fucked up royally and should still be held accountable. Schumacher's a tool who fucked up BATMAN & ROBIN. No comparison. No, racism is not trivial. Bigotry is. I don't think Mel Gibson is a racist, but rather, a bigot. Just like everyone else. He got drunk and spouted off some really bad things. But who DOESN'T say stuff like that when they're drunk? Just like everyone else? Have you ever even been drunk? Hung out with a lot of drunk people? I've been drunk before. This is going to sound terrible, but several times I've been ''falling down" drunk, (I'm 40 so cut me some slack) but it never caused me to rail against Jews or any other race. You know why? Because it's not in my heart. The stuff people spout out when they've been drinking is stuff that was always there, but the liquor makes them less inhibited to say it. His first thoughts when being pulled over by the police were to bitch about Jewish people? Who does that? Personally, I think his apologies and excuses are pretty much bullshit. That's not to say I won't eventually see APOCALYPTO. I'm just a lot less enthusiastic about it now. But hell, if I can watch THE PIANIST, CHINATOWN or ROSEMARY'S BABY after the scummy thing Polanski did, I'm sure I'll eventually get over Gibson's comments too. |
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Post by ZapRowsdower on Dec 9, 2006 13:57:31 GMT -5
That's where I disagree. Maybe you, personally, never did that while drunk, but I know a lot of people who did. Drunkenness causes people to do and say things they don't mean. It doesn't necessarily have to be in their heart, it just has to be in their head. I know impure thoughts come into my head from time to time. I don't MEAN them, but they do. The idea that drunkenness brings out the truth in some people, THAT is what I consider utter bullshit. Bullshit is usually what drunken people spout off, nothing more. And that's why I believe his apologies were sincere.
And while I, personally have never been drunk before (Personal reasons, although I do plan to find my limits next month), I HAVE been around plenty... and I do mean PLENTY of drunk people. So I have a pretty good idea what drunkenness does to people.
And I wasn't so much comparing Polanski with Schumacher. I was just saying that as a society, we never let what they did in the past affect what we think about their work.
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Post by Pulpmariachi on Dec 9, 2006 17:31:50 GMT -5
And I wasn't so much comparing Polanski with Schumacher. I was just saying that as a society, we never let what they did in the past affect what we think about their work. Again, it's hard to see the comparison between Polanski and Schumacher. I mean, Polanski did something rather bad in real life whereas Schumacher just makes terrible movies time and time again. That constantly reflects on his abilities as a director and it's no wonder that people won't see the crap he keeps turning out (oh wait...Phantom of the Opera). It makes a lot more sense to despise someone's work based off the work they've done previously rather than hating someone for whatever reason. And I agree with Heineken on the whole Gibson thing, too. |
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Post by ZapRowsdower on Dec 9, 2006 18:47:31 GMT -5
Again, it's not a comparison. In fact, I wrote in Schumacher as a joke. It wasn't intended to be a comparison between the two. I'm only saying that their work is not judged based on what they've done in the past. That is the whole point I'm making on Apocalypto. Too many people are judging the movie based on what Mel Gibson said in an incredibly drunken state rather than the quality of the film itself. Which is sad, because it is a good film. And for an Anti-Semitic, Mel Gibson sure spends a lot of time with Jews. And while I do think his apology was obviously part damage control (it would be naive to think none of it was), I do believe he's sincere. He shouldn't have said it, but I think he probably shouldn't have got behind the wheel of a car... which was worse. And if people were angry at him for THAT, I'd understand. Hell, I'M angry at him for that. But shockingly enough, I haven't heard anyone complain about it. They're all pissed off over a couple of drunken phrases. I'm glad to see we all have our priorities in order, right?  I'm not saying what he said was right, but I'm just sick of people thinking he's a hate-monger. I think what he said is proof that he probably isn't a very fun drunk. Nothing more. |
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Post by slayrrr666 on Dec 10, 2006 12:11:50 GMT -5
Okay, as the governing Mod here, I'm going to call an end to this. It has no bearing on the topic at hand, which is the movie Apocalypto, and I'm going to have to ask that all posts following better be about the movie and not Mel or I will have to delete it. Start a thread in Just Wanna Chat if you feel you wanna keep going on this riveting topic (no sarcasm intended, it's fun to read these) but let's stay on topic, fellas.  ;D |
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Post by Phoenix on Dec 10, 2006 14:18:23 GMT -5
Okay, as the governing Mod here, I'm going to call an end to this. It has no bearing on the topic at hand, which is the movie Apocalypto, and I'm going to have to ask that all posts following better be about the movie and not Mel or I will have to delete it. Start a thread in Just Wanna Chat if you feel you wanna keep going on this riveting topic (no sarcasm intended, it's fun to read these) but let's stay on topic, fellas. ;D Thanks slayrrr, because really I wanted to see what other people thought about Gibson's movie (since I thought it was bad, with no bearing on the man himself). |
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Post by Heineken Skywalker on Dec 10, 2006 18:06:54 GMT -5
Okay, as the governing Mod here, I'm going to call an end to this. It has no bearing on the topic at hand, which is the movie Apocalypto, and I'm going to have to ask that all posts following better be about the movie and not Mel or I will have to delete it. I agree, and I wouldn't have even mentioned it, but Zap chose to begin his review of the film with two paragraphs about Mel's personal life and problems instead of just going right into the review of the film which made it fair game to discuss and not at all off topic. |
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Post by ZapRowsdower on Dec 10, 2006 19:36:47 GMT -5
I felt it was relevant to start off by saying, "don't let your opinion of the man affect your opinion of the movie." That is all.
Such hostility here... Geez.
But, I agree. Bring on some more Apocalypto reviews!
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Post by Heineken Skywalker on Dec 11, 2006 0:48:53 GMT -5
No hostility. You brought it up.
Moving on now.
When I actually see the flick, I'll be happy to give my opinion of it. It seems like the kind of film I might enjoy.
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Post by slayrrr666 on Dec 11, 2006 11:01:18 GMT -5
Well, whatever. It's done, it's over.
As Zap said, bring on the reviews!
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Post by ZapRowsdower on Dec 12, 2006 1:43:57 GMT -5
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;D